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	<title>Comments on: United Methodist Bishop&#8217;s Call to Action</title>
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	<link>http://andrewconard.com/2009/11/09/united-methodist-bishops-call-to-action/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on faith, life and ministry...</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew Conard</title>
		<link>http://andrewconard.com/2009/11/09/united-methodist-bishops-call-to-action/#comment-9041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Conard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewconard.com/?p=1939#comment-9041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Larry - I appreciate your thoughts and opinions here. I agree that there is a need to reexamine ministry across many sectors of the church. Thank you for your thought and time in crafting this response.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry &#8211; I appreciate your thoughts and opinions here. I agree that there is a need to reexamine ministry across many sectors of the church. Thank you for your thought and time in crafting this response.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://andrewconard.com/2009/11/09/united-methodist-bishops-call-to-action/#comment-9038</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Larry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewconard.com/?p=1939#comment-9038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andrew,

One comment sticks in my gut about some comments I read periodically. That comment goes something like this:

&quot;Many people say denomination no longer matters.&quot;

Denomination doesn&#039;t matter squat until you or someone you love becomes a target of exclusion in a church congregation for some scriptural or doctrinal interpretive reason. For example, we could examine divorce and remarriage, or being refused Holy Communion, or not being allowed to participate in some event, ministry, or activity because of gender or race.  

When that happens... Suddenly, denomination DOES matter.

This is where the UMC truly has an edge over many other non-denominationals and denominations.  Yes, there may be controversies abrew, but overall the UMC really has its act together as far as doctrine is concerned.  (Doctrine is different from administration and beauracracy, where there are significant problems due to archaic organizational structure and duplicity in governance.) We UMC members and close followers tend to focus on flash-point doctrinal controversies (and it makes headline TV and internet news).  However, UMC doctrine of the trinity, of creation/evolution, the Bible, the resurrection, women in the church, race, war, military service, etc. is really well grounded and rounded.

The problem is many UMC&#039;s are trying to hide from being UM!  Why?  The denomination IS weakened when a pastor decides that they no longer like the UMC because of the hot-button issues, including administrative/governance issues (while ignoring all the positive doctrinal reasons to be UM).  Also, many in lay leadership positions only get caught up in the hot-button doctrinal or governance issues.

Getting caught up in this tends to dominate some admin councils, and ministry falls by the wayside into a bed of UM politics and policy.  Who loses?  People lose.  Potential new members lose?  The community loses.  

Leadership in our churches need to keep focused on the purpose of being a UM church.  God has worked miracles throughout the history of the church, and the UMC.  The difference made to people&#039;s lives, both socially and evangelically, are astounding.  In spite of ourselves, God is doing kingdom work through the UMC.  

Demographics may be an issue in the UMC, but the same demographics impacting the UMC are also at work in the U.S. and world at the same time.  No one is immune. The demographics issues will need to be addressed from the halls of Congress all the way down to the church nurse as time goes on.  I see that as a naturally evolving issue to be dealt with as demographics shift.

What&#039;s hurting the UMC are people overemphasizing hot-button topics as if General Conference, or Annual Conference, or coffee around a table on Sunday morning was a Fox News hype story... complete with screaming, rudeness, disruption, right vs. wrong, condemnation of others to their faces, and worst of all... total irrelevance and lack of authenticity as to its relationship to serving Christ&#039;s kingdom and the myriad of needs out there.

If young people are going to return and be welcomed into the church, they are going to have to be able to determine that identification with the UM denomination DOES matter.  If our doctrine matters, then current UM members and pastors need to be well versed in and embrace the UM doctrine.  We need to hold true to our well-balanced, time-tested established beliefs, avoid trying to turn controversial issues into a battleground, and use secular communication and education technologies to our full advantage.

If there IS something the UMC does to chase off young people, I think it may be these two points:

A.  Stewardship campaigns and tithing.  Although it may be as natural and inborn as bread and butter for a pastor to lead the congregation in a fall stewardship campaign (churches do need money to function), sometimes pastors and finance committees (generally consisting of wealthy individuals) really do get carried away.  The concept of tithing to a household making $80,000 to $100,000 per year is not the perception of tithing to a household of twenty-somethings dependent on minimum wage with two jobs and two little mouths to feed.   Churches and pastors need to do some simple percentage math, have some heart, and use common sense and qualifying language when requesting &quot;everyone&quot; to tithe.  A $120 utility bill for a young family is not the same percentage to that budget as it would be for the higher earners.  So, asking (or directly or indirectly perpetuating guilt towards) all worshippers equally on 10% tithing is a turn off, especially to young people. They&#039;ll choose their kids every time!  If salvation by guilt does not work in the UMC (and our denomination does not practice this in our doctrine... denomination matters!), why would tithing by guilt do so?  Both scenarios will chase people away to choose an inexpensive stroll down by the water on Sunday, rather than to be in church worshipping God (which is the central point of the church)!  When we chase people from worshipping God, something is wrong, because enabling the worship of God should be #1.)

The second issue, in my humble opinion, that chases away young people is this:

B.  Lack of IT connectivity and one-to-one pastoral/lay interaction DURING church/worship and while on the church campus.  If UMC&#039;s do not get wireless systems up and running soon, I&#039;m going to scream!  Welcome to 2010!  Hello?  Wireless connect should be available for ALL Christian ed scenarios, no matter what the 85 year old Admin Board chairman says!  I&#039;m also tired of pastors having the only word on Sunday mornings at worship.  What ever happened to the priesthood of all believers?  Adam Hamilton&#039;s recent addition of an optional Q &amp; A session following sermons on Sunday evenings is an OUTSTANDING idea whose time is way past overdue in church.  Pastors have hidden forever behind the pulpit as if were a bullet-proof vest.  It&#039;s time for them to be challenged by those in the congregation, and not be so passive.  It&#039;s time for congregants to not just HEAR what our pastors say they believe and what the Bible says, but also to question WHY they believe it, and to challenge some of their sermon statements or thoughts.  If pastors can get the guts up to open up publicly to receiving challenging questions from their own parish members and attendees, the pastors may become stronger people and UM leaders for it!  They will also be more understanding of what this generation is after with regard to the buzzword &quot;authenticity.&quot;

Denomination DOES matter.  Just wait until women are suppressed again to the pew by some non-denominational church somewhere, based upon some cultural utterance of the Apostle Paul 2000 years ago.  Just wait until the twenty and thirty somethings start getting divorced and become condemned in their congregations and separated from Holy Communion.  Just wait until some non-denominational advocates continuance of a marriage where a spouse and children are being abused and harmed, just because the &quot;Bible says so&quot;.

Denomination WILL matter then.  And those people will begin searching for a loving church whose doctrine reaches out in the name of Christ to touch, heal, and to allow for being reborn!

Here&#039;s the REAL question facing the UM pastors and members today:  Are UM&#039;s up to the challenge of defending their beliefs and carrying forward the well-founded doctrine of their denomination?  That may be the REAL problem that the &quot;Call To Action&quot; committee might discover.  

If the UM pastors, in particular, are all up in arms over their pensions and insurance problems, or appointment problems, etc., may I suggest they reexamine their ministry (for the good of the denomination and spirtually starving laity) from the perspective of:

-- Christian servanthood
-- overall UM doctrinal beliefs (not just the above financial/personnel issues)
-- being in prayer about the future of the UMC

Without your dedication to the now and future, pastors, the UM is a sunk ship.  We need you to be well-grounded Methodists, defenders of the faith and denomination, yet willing to adjust in the rapidly changing world that all of laity have to live daily within just to make it.

It&#039;s not the young people avoiding the UMC.  I believe Methodists are attempting to avoid Methodism, almost exclusively because of hot-button topics and admin/governance issues.  Young adults feel the tension, and they are sitting on the sidelines... waiting for us to be authentic to our doctrine and personal belief in Christ as the resurrected Savior of our hearts and soul!  

Denomination DOES matter.  Just wait and see.  But, are we ready to truly welcome those families, singles, and children who will eventually run into the doctrinal barriers afforded by other churches?  Or are we caught up looking at our internal problems as a log, when all they really are floaters in the fluid of our own eyes?

Trying to stay focused amid the storm of the UMC, I&#039;m

Larry McDonald - Just plain old laity.
Pensacola, FL]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,</p>
<p>One comment sticks in my gut about some comments I read periodically. That comment goes something like this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Many people say denomination no longer matters.&#8221;</p>
<p>Denomination doesn&#8217;t matter squat until you or someone you love becomes a target of exclusion in a church congregation for some scriptural or doctrinal interpretive reason. For example, we could examine divorce and remarriage, or being refused Holy Communion, or not being allowed to participate in some event, ministry, or activity because of gender or race.  </p>
<p>When that happens&#8230; Suddenly, denomination DOES matter.</p>
<p>This is where the UMC truly has an edge over many other non-denominationals and denominations.  Yes, there may be controversies abrew, but overall the UMC really has its act together as far as doctrine is concerned.  (Doctrine is different from administration and beauracracy, where there are significant problems due to archaic organizational structure and duplicity in governance.) We UMC members and close followers tend to focus on flash-point doctrinal controversies (and it makes headline TV and internet news).  However, UMC doctrine of the trinity, of creation/evolution, the Bible, the resurrection, women in the church, race, war, military service, etc. is really well grounded and rounded.</p>
<p>The problem is many UMC&#8217;s are trying to hide from being UM!  Why?  The denomination IS weakened when a pastor decides that they no longer like the UMC because of the hot-button issues, including administrative/governance issues (while ignoring all the positive doctrinal reasons to be UM).  Also, many in lay leadership positions only get caught up in the hot-button doctrinal or governance issues.</p>
<p>Getting caught up in this tends to dominate some admin councils, and ministry falls by the wayside into a bed of UM politics and policy.  Who loses?  People lose.  Potential new members lose?  The community loses.  </p>
<p>Leadership in our churches need to keep focused on the purpose of being a UM church.  God has worked miracles throughout the history of the church, and the UMC.  The difference made to people&#8217;s lives, both socially and evangelically, are astounding.  In spite of ourselves, God is doing kingdom work through the UMC.  </p>
<p>Demographics may be an issue in the UMC, but the same demographics impacting the UMC are also at work in the U.S. and world at the same time.  No one is immune. The demographics issues will need to be addressed from the halls of Congress all the way down to the church nurse as time goes on.  I see that as a naturally evolving issue to be dealt with as demographics shift.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s hurting the UMC are people overemphasizing hot-button topics as if General Conference, or Annual Conference, or coffee around a table on Sunday morning was a Fox News hype story&#8230; complete with screaming, rudeness, disruption, right vs. wrong, condemnation of others to their faces, and worst of all&#8230; total irrelevance and lack of authenticity as to its relationship to serving Christ&#8217;s kingdom and the myriad of needs out there.</p>
<p>If young people are going to return and be welcomed into the church, they are going to have to be able to determine that identification with the UM denomination DOES matter.  If our doctrine matters, then current UM members and pastors need to be well versed in and embrace the UM doctrine.  We need to hold true to our well-balanced, time-tested established beliefs, avoid trying to turn controversial issues into a battleground, and use secular communication and education technologies to our full advantage.</p>
<p>If there IS something the UMC does to chase off young people, I think it may be these two points:</p>
<p>A.  Stewardship campaigns and tithing.  Although it may be as natural and inborn as bread and butter for a pastor to lead the congregation in a fall stewardship campaign (churches do need money to function), sometimes pastors and finance committees (generally consisting of wealthy individuals) really do get carried away.  The concept of tithing to a household making $80,000 to $100,000 per year is not the perception of tithing to a household of twenty-somethings dependent on minimum wage with two jobs and two little mouths to feed.   Churches and pastors need to do some simple percentage math, have some heart, and use common sense and qualifying language when requesting &#8220;everyone&#8221; to tithe.  A $120 utility bill for a young family is not the same percentage to that budget as it would be for the higher earners.  So, asking (or directly or indirectly perpetuating guilt towards) all worshippers equally on 10% tithing is a turn off, especially to young people. They&#8217;ll choose their kids every time!  If salvation by guilt does not work in the UMC (and our denomination does not practice this in our doctrine&#8230; denomination matters!), why would tithing by guilt do so?  Both scenarios will chase people away to choose an inexpensive stroll down by the water on Sunday, rather than to be in church worshipping God (which is the central point of the church)!  When we chase people from worshipping God, something is wrong, because enabling the worship of God should be #1.)</p>
<p>The second issue, in my humble opinion, that chases away young people is this:</p>
<p>B.  Lack of IT connectivity and one-to-one pastoral/lay interaction DURING church/worship and while on the church campus.  If UMC&#8217;s do not get wireless systems up and running soon, I&#8217;m going to scream!  Welcome to 2010!  Hello?  Wireless connect should be available for ALL Christian ed scenarios, no matter what the 85 year old Admin Board chairman says!  I&#8217;m also tired of pastors having the only word on Sunday mornings at worship.  What ever happened to the priesthood of all believers?  Adam Hamilton&#8217;s recent addition of an optional Q &amp; A session following sermons on Sunday evenings is an OUTSTANDING idea whose time is way past overdue in church.  Pastors have hidden forever behind the pulpit as if were a bullet-proof vest.  It&#8217;s time for them to be challenged by those in the congregation, and not be so passive.  It&#8217;s time for congregants to not just HEAR what our pastors say they believe and what the Bible says, but also to question WHY they believe it, and to challenge some of their sermon statements or thoughts.  If pastors can get the guts up to open up publicly to receiving challenging questions from their own parish members and attendees, the pastors may become stronger people and UM leaders for it!  They will also be more understanding of what this generation is after with regard to the buzzword &#8220;authenticity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Denomination DOES matter.  Just wait until women are suppressed again to the pew by some non-denominational church somewhere, based upon some cultural utterance of the Apostle Paul 2000 years ago.  Just wait until the twenty and thirty somethings start getting divorced and become condemned in their congregations and separated from Holy Communion.  Just wait until some non-denominational advocates continuance of a marriage where a spouse and children are being abused and harmed, just because the &#8220;Bible says so&#8221;.</p>
<p>Denomination WILL matter then.  And those people will begin searching for a loving church whose doctrine reaches out in the name of Christ to touch, heal, and to allow for being reborn!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the REAL question facing the UM pastors and members today:  Are UM&#8217;s up to the challenge of defending their beliefs and carrying forward the well-founded doctrine of their denomination?  That may be the REAL problem that the &#8220;Call To Action&#8221; committee might discover.  </p>
<p>If the UM pastors, in particular, are all up in arms over their pensions and insurance problems, or appointment problems, etc., may I suggest they reexamine their ministry (for the good of the denomination and spirtually starving laity) from the perspective of:</p>
<p>&#8211; Christian servanthood<br />
&#8211; overall UM doctrinal beliefs (not just the above financial/personnel issues)<br />
&#8211; being in prayer about the future of the UMC</p>
<p>Without your dedication to the now and future, pastors, the UM is a sunk ship.  We need you to be well-grounded Methodists, defenders of the faith and denomination, yet willing to adjust in the rapidly changing world that all of laity have to live daily within just to make it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not the young people avoiding the UMC.  I believe Methodists are attempting to avoid Methodism, almost exclusively because of hot-button topics and admin/governance issues.  Young adults feel the tension, and they are sitting on the sidelines&#8230; waiting for us to be authentic to our doctrine and personal belief in Christ as the resurrected Savior of our hearts and soul!  </p>
<p>Denomination DOES matter.  Just wait and see.  But, are we ready to truly welcome those families, singles, and children who will eventually run into the doctrinal barriers afforded by other churches?  Or are we caught up looking at our internal problems as a log, when all they really are floaters in the fluid of our own eyes?</p>
<p>Trying to stay focused amid the storm of the UMC, I&#8217;m</p>
<p>Larry McDonald &#8211; Just plain old laity.<br />
Pensacola, FL</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JAy.</title>
		<link>http://andrewconard.com/2009/11/09/united-methodist-bishops-call-to-action/#comment-8856</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JAy.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewconard.com/?p=1939#comment-8856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Am I the only one that finds it odd that they recommend reducing the administration, but recommend only administrative tasks?

Finally, I am getting personally frustrated with all the talk of metrics and financial planning that goes on in the church.  When Jesus commissioned the seventy, he didn&#039;t say, &quot;Go and visit twenty towns.  Tell 500 people about the Kingdom.  Come back with the names of 75 converts....&quot;  He told them to preach the word and love others.

Should the UMC mandate really be that much more complicated?  And I personally believe that if we strive to make every action an act of love, the metrics and financials will work out.  God will provide for those who do his work.  Isn&#039;t that what Jesus taught?

(Note, I am not speaking for or against $10 million church buildings in this statement.  Each person/congregation/distric/region/etc. has to prayerfully consider their needs and determine how to allocate their blessings.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only one that finds it odd that they recommend reducing the administration, but recommend only administrative tasks?</p>
<p>Finally, I am getting personally frustrated with all the talk of metrics and financial planning that goes on in the church.  When Jesus commissioned the seventy, he didn&#8217;t say, &#8220;Go and visit twenty towns.  Tell 500 people about the Kingdom.  Come back with the names of 75 converts&#8230;.&#8221;  He told them to preach the word and love others.</p>
<p>Should the UMC mandate really be that much more complicated?  And I personally believe that if we strive to make every action an act of love, the metrics and financials will work out.  God will provide for those who do his work.  Isn&#8217;t that what Jesus taught?</p>
<p>(Note, I am not speaking for or against $10 million church buildings in this statement.  Each person/congregation/distric/region/etc. has to prayerfully consider their needs and determine how to allocate their blessings.)</p>
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