I also appreciate your reminder toward honesty. Upon consideration, I agree with you. To be honest about opinions and beliefs is the best way to enter into conversation. Reaching toward the lowest common denominator is not a way to respect differences and also be in conversation.

I think speaking of Protestant churches as being instruments of salvation derivatively is actually an accurate statement, if not theologically, at least from a sheer historical perspective, since Protestants, at least in the West, cannot help but ultimately trace their ancestry to the RCC, whether they would want to or not.

As to mention of ‘defects’ being a barrier to ecumenism… again, it’s no different than what was in Vatican II. Whether it is stated as containing defects or not having the fulness of the faith, both are negative statements, and thus imply the same thing, whether they use the same language or not.

In my discussions on the blogosphere, I find much more resistance and outright opposition to ecumenism among protestants than among catholics. Saying that Protestantism contains defects seems mild and a compliment compared to what I hear, especially from the Reformed, who call Catholics apostate, blasphemers, idolaters, goddess-worshipers, and servants of the anti-christ. Of course, these people say the same thing about Orthodox and other Protestants, including me. lol.

I think that if the Catholic Church seriously considers other Christian groups to be defective, as is necessitated by their theology, then to make such a statement within an ecumenical movement is at least honest, and let’s the other parties involved know where they stand. Therefore, I can very well respect it.

To say that there are defects is not to say that something is defective. I think it is interesting that the other language employed- that these other communities “are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation”, in the articles I have read, are essentially overlooked. Being of ‘significance’ and ‘importance’ seems, at least in my mind, to outweigh containing defects, since it ultimately means that there is incredible value since it is not entirely defective.

Concerning defects in Protestant churches…considering how many denominations there are, that seems to me to be a pretty obvious one. It seems difficult to me to affirm a stance towards ecumenism and a maintain a criticism of the Pope’s statements when the very dirty and inescapable fact of denominationalism is a monument of Protestants perceiving defects of their own within other Protestant groups; at least enough to start their own churches.